Ford posts 3rd Quarter Profit!!!

[99slverZ]

Originally Posted by CRASH

It's the common misconception from people that don't understand, I didn't mean the reasoning. I'm stating my experiences, and how people have acted adversely towards me - without even knowing me - for the simple fact I was a UAW worker. Nothing else mattered, I just made too much money and was some sort of elitist.



Besides...who in their right mind would turn down a $28/hr job? Nobody I would hope, or they would need some serious shit slapped out of them. But the way you make it sound is that if you had the job offered to you, you'd be like 'No, I don't feel I should make that much because market rate states I should be making $14/hr, so why don't you go ahead and pay me that?'

I can understand where your coming from but he has the same view I do.

My buddy works for GM. High School Diploma, been there for a few years and makes $26-$28/hr I believe? That is aboslute CRAP. I would LOVE to see any auto companies total employee number for factory workers. Most of them are making $20+ an hour. Okay...cut that pay in half and see how much money they save. Let alone post the same jobs in the classifieds for $12/hr and watch how many people come pouring in. Even in a much better economy there are many of people who would take that job in a heartbeat for half the pay is now. Am I mad at him specifically because he makes that much? Nope, I'm happy for him. He lives a good life and I'm glad. He got lucky, and thats good for him.


NOW if you have a college degree that qualifies you more for your position should you get more starting pay? Absolutely. I can't dissagree with that. You put in your hard work and money into schooling and you should be more qualified for your job.

I have been inside both Ford and GM assembly plants. I have seen what work is being performed. Yeah, in the summer it gets hot. Yes, its probably boring doing the same thing all day. But there is no way in hell that work is worth $20+/hr. NO WAY. If your doing some kind of welding, something that requires talent...then sure you deserve decent money. But if your pushing a button, and installing some rivets or even god forbid lifting a little weight every day do you deserve that much money? Again, absolutely not.

Would I turn down the job and current pay if it was reliable? Hell no. Who would? Just the fact of the matter is factory union auto workers with no school experience or other qualifications are over paid, period. Want to see production increase? Get rid of the union bullshit and switch to paid by production.

[ASRoff]

The way business is done at the big three plants needs to be completely revamped or I promise it will go away. for 2 and a half years I had an office in Wixom. I was a liaison between Ford and the Budd co.

There were some very good workers there and some very bad ones that hide in the shadow of the union.

At the plant I work at now the environment is completely different.

Were not union. There is no way our plant would work as union. We have 2 sister plants both are union. guess what? I'm paid more than my union counterparts. Why? Because I do more than a union worker. Our plant has no management structure except me and the plant manager. We have no process engineers, no "skilled laborers" and no supervisors. I'm trusted to do all of these things to change my hat as needed.

here is an old article on my plant. The team members that are interviewed are actually from my team. Team Raven.

Read the whole article and tell me if something isent different.

A couple of things, were now 300 strong our sister plant is 8,000 strong and we out produce them with fewer defects per unit. We currently are on a 20 "defect free" engine spree. (we produce between 160-180 GE90's a year)

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/28/ge.html

While most American plants are scaling back, Were getting more engine lines. We recently added the GP7200 (A380 engines) and are gearing up to produce the GENX for the 787 (actually were ready to produce were just waiting for Boeing to catch up.

[ASRoff]

BTW what you would call a defect and what we call a Defect are completely different.

A scratched tube, a hose retaining clamp not torqued, a tube rubbing another tube, missing safety wire. while none of this may affect the performance in anyway and the engine will be fine all the way up to overhaul. We consider it a Defect and we eliminate it.

[Scooter70]

Originally Posted by CRASH

Besides...who in their right mind would turn down a $28/hr job? Nobody I would hope, or they would need some serious shit slapped out of them. But the way you make it sound is that if you had the job offered to you, you'd be like 'No, I don't feel I should make that much because market rate states I should be making $14/hr, so why don't you go ahead and pay me that?'

No, that's not quite right. I have no problem with people making as much as they can. It's the American way to do the best that you can for yourself. But when someone else is willing to do your job for less, something has to change. In an age when corporate profit (or in our case - trying to make a profit) drives every decision, management will examine every cost to find excess and drive it out of the system.

Originally Posted by ASRoff

BTW what you would call a defect and what we call a Defect are completely different.

A scratched tube, a hose retaining clamp not torqued, a tube rubbing another tube, missing safety wire. while none of this may affect the performance in anyway and the engine will be fine all the way up to overhaul. We consider it a Defect and we eliminate it.

The Toyota production system. It works. Scarily enough it was developed right here in Michigan and brought over to Japan post-WW2. The Japanese embraced the philosophy When they rebuilt their infrastructure after the war and made it their mission to drive out defects. The Big 3 couldn't implement it because the culture here just wouldn't change.

I assume you've read The Toyota Way? Dr Liker came to speak to us at U of D a few years ago when we were reading and discussing his book.

[ASRoff]

Originally Posted by Scooter70

The Toyota production system. It works.

Shhhhh!!! Matt If you tell them its the toyota system then It will scare them all away. LOL

[TRBOBUICK]

Originally Posted by Scooter70

But when someone else is willing to do your job for less, something has to change.

Then to apply that logic all cement workers should want to work for 5.00 an hour because an immigrant will do it for that. Or you should make less because an indian will do your job for 1/4 of what you will ?

[Belowme]

Originally Posted by TRBOBUICK

Then to apply that logic all cement workers should want to work for 5.00 an hour because an immigrant will do it for that. Or you should make less because an indian will do your job for 1/4 of what you will ?

Or someone in China will do the job for 1.00 a day...I have been there, I have seen it...

[patman]

One of my beefs with the amount of money that UAW makes has to do more with the attitudes and values of all of us in America. Why has it ever made sense to pay a guy on a line pushing a button or what ever, $26 hr, and the teacher teaching our kids $18 hr? Or the nurse taking care of us in the hospital $22 hr? Are our priorities are that screwed up that this is the norm and no one notices?

[TRBOBUICK]

Originally Posted by patman

One of my beefs with the amount of money that UAW makes has to do more with the attitudes and values of all of us in America. Why has it ever made sense to pay a guy on a line pushing a button or what ever, $26 hr, and the teacher teaching our kids $18 hr? Or the nurse taking care of us in the hospital $22 hr? Are our priorities are that screwed up that this is the norm and no one notices?

Tell me one good thing that lowering everyones pay will do to the economy ?
Your telling me that lowering the pay of a group that tends to blow every cent they get on beer, vacations, new trucks, boats, more beer, atv's, ect is going to help any of us ?

If the american companys want to structure thier companys like the japanese, it needs to be from the top to the bottom. From the ceo on down. In 2004, the average American CEO was paid $10 million, as reported in The Wall Street Journal’s annual analysis of the 350 largest public companies (WSJ 2005). This is a huge 14.5 percent increase over the annual CEO compensation in 2003. American CEO pay currently dwarfs foreign CEO pay. German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (

[patman]

Originally Posted by TRBOBUICK

Tell me one good thing that lowering everyones pay will do to the economy ?
Your telling me that lowering the pay of a group that tends to blow every cent they get on beer, vacations, new trucks, boats, more beer, atv's, ect is going to help any of us ?

If the american companys want to structure thier companys like the japanese, it needs to be from the top to the bottom. From the ceo on down. In 2004, the average American CEO was paid $10 million, as reported in The Wall Street Journal’s annual analysis of the 350 largest public companies (WSJ 2005). This is a huge 14.5 percent increase over the annual CEO compensation in 2003. American CEO pay currently dwarfs foreign CEO pay. German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (

Where in my post did I state that someone should have their pay lowered?

My point is, what does it say about us as a society when we're willing to pay people that take care of your health and welfare less than what we pay people that are basically watching a machine run all day?